A Pox on Your Tax

New York's high-end earners are our greatest export: our tax policy is driving them out.

The facts are in. New York is the only state in the union to have more of its residents unemployed this year than last.  It even beat California. This is an honor I can do without.  This is also expected.  According to the Tax Foundation, we have lost since the beginning of the new century 3.4 million high wage earners (minimum $200,000.00 annual income), taking $119 billion in taxable income with them.  Those are the people who create jobs and invest in business.

 You may say, "we are in a recession caused by President Bush, so what can we do about it?” You would be wrong. Yes, we are in a recession, but New York's confiscatory taxes are the cause. These people did not stop earning their incomes; they are earning them in less taxing states such as Florida, Texas and the Carolinas.  If taxes were a product of national policies, the high wage earners could not make their money in any state. 

In a related poll, New Yorkers are giving Governor Cuomo the highest approval ratings since past Governor Pataki's right after 9/11. Both ratings have in common public approval that is based on hype, not on fact. Pataki got his hand slapped by asking for $54 billion in federal aid instead of the more reasonable $22 billion we got. Past New York City Mayor Giuliani did the heavy lifting, while Pataki tried pigging out at the federal trough.

[To read on click here]

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stephany June 24, 2012 at 03:55 PM
This is from the 2005-08 contract. how does this apply to 10 hr work days. assuming they do work 10 hrs a day.. just askin' ?????? Overtime shall be computed as follows:. a. Anything in excess of eight (8) hours in any twenty-four (24) hour period. Overtime pay shall be calculated as follows: No overtime for the first fifteen minutes; one-half hour of overtime for minutes 16 through 30 and one hour of overtime for minutes 3 1 through 60. Overtime in excess of 60 minutes will be rounded up to the nearest one-fourth hour. b. Anythmg in excess of the accepted work schedule. c. The work schedule shall not exceed forty (40) hours in any seven (7) day period. 2]When a member of the bargaining unit works at a time other than his/her normal work schedule during hours not contiguous to the normal work schedule, he/she shall be guaranteed a minimum of four hours overtime compensation regardless of the actual time worked. Like going to court and getting called first to get out in 15 mins. again just askin' for clarification
Clarkstown life June 24, 2012 at 04:19 PM
Where do you get 10 hour work days from? No surprise that you ASSumed it......either way.....goto a board meeting and ask.....not on the blogs
Clarkstown life June 24, 2012 at 04:26 PM
'takers in society'.......the civil service worker are the takers?....there is no discussing the matter further with you if that is your ridiculous position
stephany June 25, 2012 at 03:03 AM
what about this, 2]When a member of the bargaining unit works at a time other than his/her normal work schedule during hours not contiguous to the normal work schedule, he/she shall be guaranteed a minimum of four hours overtime compensation regardless of the actual time worked. Like going to court and getting called first to get out in 15 mins if a cop making $150 k/$75 hr goes to court and is back home in 1 hr or so he collects $450 for his trouble or $450 an hr..even if it takes 2 hrs it is still $225 an hr.now that should be illegal. I think everyone should fight every ticket for a while and cause every cop to have to go to court.They will cash in for a while but it will cause the town to rethink our generosity. no wonder most of their time is spent writing tickets.
Watchdog June 25, 2012 at 12:02 PM
Clarkstown PD Exposed by taxpayer. http://www.clarkstowntaxpayers.com/docs/salsumm.pdf
Brenda M June 25, 2012 at 12:46 PM
There are two articles that are related http://newcity.patch.com/blog_posts/two-jokes-one-humorous-one-laughable http://newcity.patch.com/blog_posts/the-joke-is-on-you The Clarkstown Taxpayers should provide links to their articles.
Ed B June 27, 2012 at 12:53 AM
Watchdog....a simple solution. Just move from your Nanuet home to NYC where the police salaries might be more palatable for you. Or, when you need police assistance in an emergency, shop around for a lower salaried PD to handle your case. Get a life.
Ross Revira June 27, 2012 at 01:30 AM
Clarkstown is where the inmates run the asylum. Public servants being served. Does the Clarkstown Police have a sex tape with the town board as the stars?
jeff meyer June 27, 2012 at 01:36 AM
A rather crass, arrogant and fact deprived comment. What a surprise. JM Tuckahoe, NY
bruiser June 27, 2012 at 02:54 AM
Jeff how are you my friend,i have been watching the responses here quite closely and i have to say you are correct in many of them.I myself own a rig and have been self employed for many years,now with that said i will attempt to explain. I for one thank you for all your dedication to keeping the people safe and putting your life on the line doing so.I also will thank the men and women who keep our roads clear during storms,i will thank the men and women for supplying clean water to our homes,and i thank sanitation people for taking our garbage. I want firemen to know i appreciate everything they do whether they are paid or volunteers,Jeff i have learned a lot over the years about people and the biggest thing i have learned is that the people who who complain the most always point the finger at somebody else to take the heat off themselves.
jeff meyer June 27, 2012 at 03:24 AM
Thank you bruiser. Would be glad to buy you a cup. JM Tuckahoe, NY
Ross Revira June 27, 2012 at 11:39 AM
Again the hypocrite. Agree with the comment buy a cup of coffee . Disagree and attack the screen name. Morally bankrupt.
Watchdog June 27, 2012 at 12:05 PM
Bruiser, the "complaints" you cite are not about performance buy largely about salary and benefits. Cops are "on the job" 179 days out of the year with 81 days off, including 6 weeks vacation, 7 personal days, 8 bereavement days, 12 holidays. Cost is $200,000++, that is over $5,185 for every week or more than $1,000 a day for every day "on the job". FYI it is not listed in the most dangerous professions. This is not to disparage anyone but the guy who catches your fish has a job that is more dangerous. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/the-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america/
Ross Revira June 27, 2012 at 12:55 PM
Most people of good conscience want the same thing for all public service workers. When the system gets bent out of shape by certain special interest groups the system will crash by its very own weight. It is up to the general public to speak up ,and point out the inequities to save the system so it can continue to serve the people. Greed comes in all forms and by signing ones name and address does not make it right .
Mark Carolla June 27, 2012 at 02:04 PM
Watchdog, Good morning. Your reasoned comment this AM prompted me to do some research in the NY Times beyond the link you provided. Although you came across as being "anti-cop" earlier & your references to mistreating seniors sounded a bit off the wall, I see the cause of your ire after seeing a NY Times article from 2009 putting the police salaries in perspective. (No polemics in the article about selfish and greedy.) You and I were citing different sets of statistics. What amazes & frankly, enrages me as an ex public servant is that the union at least back then was going to ask for a salary increase! Maybe "greedy" is true...mea culpa. What really infuriates me is that situations such as this with the CPD give civil servants a bad name across the board & cause "collateral damage" to other PDs; teachers & the others I've cited. Now I see why you were zeroing in on the CPD, & I apologize for taking your comments out of context. We literally were in"violent agreement." I still think you should use your real name. "Watchdog" sounds demeaning unless you were a fighter pilot.
Ross Revira June 27, 2012 at 03:32 PM
Mark, I am glad you came back to this thread to comment. I can remember the days when police, fire, teachers etc. were underpaid. Starting in the late sixties compensation for public employees started to rise with the great help of unions. With the passing of the Triborough Amendment fair collective bargaining is impossible. Salaries and benefits can never go down unless the union agrees to it . If no agreement is reached the previous contract's provisions stay in place except for the cost of living raise. Some contracts have a binding arbitration clause where an arbitrator decides the issue. I cannot remember one case where an arbiter ruled in the public's favor. Economic reality today says society cannot continue paying public employees these most generous packages. The last two Governors of New York (liberal Democrats) have realized this and created Tier 5 and Tier 6 pensions. If I had a magic wand and could give everyone free health care for life, six weeks vacation, generous sick leave and a pension at an amount sometimes higher than their base pay I would. It would seem union officials are children, always asking for more and the children we elect think the taxpayers pocket is a money tree. As one ex union official stated I am against public employees. Far from it I have numerous civil service members in my family and proud of the work they do. They have the intelligence to realize how lucky they are and smart enough to realize we cannot continue on our present path.
Watchdog June 27, 2012 at 04:08 PM
Thanks Marc, you are a gentleman for doing your homework. Rockland is a graying community and the folks who moved here in the 60's and 70's built the Town of Clarkstown can no longer afford to live here while each cop is costing us over $200,000 a year. 140 people are consuming 25-30% of the Town budget. The 81 days they get off is attrocious and feeds into overtime since they actually work 179 days of the year. SENIORS ARE SUFFERING AND THE COPS JUST DO NOT CARE.
Watchdog June 27, 2012 at 04:14 PM
Orangetown cops just got a compounded 5 year increase yesterday and the Town is blaming Clarkstown because Gromack gave them an increase. It just NEVER stops. See the article in todays PATCH. We are just screwed.
Mark Carolla June 27, 2012 at 04:56 PM
Ross - I can't stay too engaged as I'm working. Just a note: No argument about many NY State civil service jobs but Federal Employees (& many state) do not have free health care for life - they contribute to it for life; and pensions are well below base pay.(which was frozen for years) .Current employees basically have an IRA. In exchange for relatively lower pay they get 6 weeks vacation (after 10-15 years of service) & 13 days sick leave, I was constantly called a chump and a fool by head hunters because they couldn't lure me to private sector jobs with twice my salary. We Americans have the worst vacation & other benefits in the industrialized world. After WWII the West did away with the threat of Marxist socialism by making the workers Middle Class. In my opinion, all went wrong in the 80's when leveraged buy outs,investor greed etc.resulted in outsourced jobs & production overseas (e.g. Southwest Airlines does all major maintenance in El Salvador) & stripping remaining jobs of benefits. The work force is the most important asset a corporation has & Wall Street impoverished ours & is shrinking our Middle Class & now aiming at the public sector after a decade of negative revenue in tax cuts. The public sector is Wall St's last target for quasi Marxist income redistribution.with the difference between Marxist & Capitalist being a Marxist says "Nobody should make so much," & the Capitalist says "Everybody should make so much!" .2 wrongs don't make a right. Just my opinion.
Mark Carolla June 27, 2012 at 05:22 PM
Thanks Watchdog - I guess where you and I have slight different takes on the police issue is that I, also being as you are in "advanced youth" (sounds better than "senior"), but in my case living in an area with comparatively low property taxes (in my case 4 K a year) vent at entities such as the phone companies, Dominion Electric Power, and the health insurers rather than the police. Also, despite our agreement on high salaries - discussion of which gets too personal -having done police work and intelligence shift work "back in the day" & having a spouse who did shift work as a Naval Officer & for an airline I tend to think 80 plus days off (including vacation) isn't unreasonable especially if it is 4 days on, 4off or something like that. Just my opinion.
bruiser June 27, 2012 at 06:25 PM
Mark i would like to thank you for a well written response,in today's world it is hard to find a gentlemen who speaks his mind,but does it with the utmost respect. I will state again i am self employed but with that statement i will go a little bit further today than i did last night. I have operated a truck for the better part of 40 years,i have over the years felt my tax money was wasted by our government(yes i used to complain about government employees) .I was also taught a very good lesson about 15 years ago by a gentlemen like yourself,i haul products for the government at times and i am paid with taxpayers dollars.If people would actually take the time and think about it all privates do some kind of business with the government and are paid with taxpayers money,deli's,taxi companies,trucking firms,car companies,and the list goes on and on.
Mark Carolla June 27, 2012 at 08:38 PM
Bruiser - Thanks. I appreciate your job in trucking and know that being an owner/operator is getting more difficult. I know that cutbacks on infrastructure are making things difficult for guys like you.
jeff meyer June 28, 2012 at 01:34 AM
Sorry to hurt your feelings buddy. I'll gladly buy you a cup too. JM Tuckahoe, NY
Chris Clement June 28, 2012 at 01:04 PM
Was raised to be pro-union. Unions were formed to help the workers, like gave us weekends off, and protected us against unscrupulous employers. Unions have changed dramatically. It's it egregious that the last few years before a person retires they rack up the overtime to increase their pensions. This is NOT sustainable. Especailly because they take their huge pensions and go down south. Down south where a friend owns 100 acres and pays less thn $1,000 a year in real estate taxes. Yes, wages are lower down south; so are taxes. Comparing NY costs with those in the south is comparing apples and oranges. Our police officers are needed, and should be respected. As for the job being dangerous (yes, domestic disputes can be dangerous), being a lumber jack or garbage collector is more dangerous than being a police officer. Check the statistics. People have "free choice" to chose their occupation. Being a lumber jack or garbage man puts great physical stress on the human body. Being a police officer puts great emotional stress on the mind.
Ross Revira June 28, 2012 at 01:25 PM
Chris I hope that is your real name. If it is not, your comment is absurd and totally false.(between me and you, it is a home run). Would be glad to buy you a cup of coffee with money I earned and not with the taxpayers largess.
Watchdog June 28, 2012 at 01:51 PM
The myths about these cops, perpetrated for years are being exposed like a peeled onion. Dangerous job? Not in the top ten. Lack of time with families? They have more time off than 99% of the taxpayers who pay their salaries. Concerned for citizens? Nit when seniors on fixed incomes have crumbling homes while $150,000 additions are being put on cops homes. Sure we need cops and everyone needs to be respected but these cops and insatiable demands are selfish acts and citizens are suffering because of the selfish acts of these cops. Shameful but true.
Clarkstown life July 01, 2012 at 02:16 AM
Mooooo-lick says what?
Mike August 09, 2012 at 12:09 PM
Spot on!
Mark Carolla August 09, 2012 at 01:54 PM
Unions are the reason we had a robust Middle Class after WWII until the Gordon Gecko's took over in the 80's & if one wants to get rich or become part of the "upper 1%" public employment still isn't a real option. But NY State's problem is local governments appear to have lost perspective on public employee unions and benefits. I'm a retired federal employee and my late parents were teachers in Rockland County & Upstate each for 30+ years, & current NY State benies are mind-boggling compared to what my parents earned and I've experienced. When I hear state and local employees have medical plans into which they pay nothing or 5-10% I'm astounded & amazed at defined benefit pensions in which they pay next to nothing. (As a federal civil servant I paid much more into retirement than I would have under Social Security & even with years of Social Security contributions I'll get next to nothing to preclude double dipping. Doing overtime to boost one's pension is forbidden under federal retirement. Feds generally don't get overtime. Only after 9/11 did DoD personnel get any - and straight time, not time & a half - for 50-60 or more hour weeks.) Those local benefits were because public salaries were so low & we forgot those benefits were in return for paltry salaries & as salaries rose, benefits were never adjusted. This was fine as long as all the taxpayers were doing well & getting equal benies; now that we all have been shafted NY State has a problem. Unions fault?
Mark Carolla August 09, 2012 at 02:25 PM
Chris - No easy answers - I live "down South" and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I pay much higher state income tax on my pension in Virginia than I would in NY....and I pay more than $4,000 a year in property taxes on a 1.5 acre home and lot....admitedly not as much as I'd be paying in Rockland County. NY State has ALWAYS been as the bumper stickers used to say in the 60's "The Land of Taxes." As for unions and overtime boosting pensions, I know that doesn't happen with federal pensions (besides, what's a union?) and in most surviving private sector jobs.. In the private sector with unions crippled we've gone back to the days of working "off the clock" for free or being dismissed. Just before 9/11 United Airlines reservationists went union because among other reasons they would be fired if they took more than 3 of the 15 alleged sick days they were entitled to in a year. They repeatedly had their pay cut - take it or leave it. They could be placed on probation for going to the rest room more than twice on a shift. But...back to comparing NY costs with those in the South - the reason so many New Yorkers retire down South is because they can't afford to stay up there because of the property and other taxes...or so they think...until they have to pay $1,000 to register their car; deal with 5-7 day power outages) ; and for those of us of Italian Heritage finding there is no decent pizza south of the Delaware Memorial Bridge!!


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